The Plainfield Plan Commission met on Wednesday, April 11, 2007. In attendance were Mr. Satterfield, Mr. Matrana, Mr. McPhail, Mr. Brandgard, Mr. Gibbs, Mr. Kirchoff and Ms. Whicker.
ROLL CALL/DETERMINATION OF QUORUM
Mr. Carlucci administered the Roll Call.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE MINUTES
Mr. Kirchoff made a motion to approve the regular Plan Commission minutes of March 5, 2007 and the Plan Commission minutes for a special meeting of March 15, 2007 as submitted. Second by Mr. Matrana. Motion carried.
OATH OF TESTIMONY
Mr. Daniel administered the Oath of Testimony.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Ms. Whicker reviewed the Guidelines Governing the Conduct of Public Hearings. We have petition DP-06-031, GPS Development.
Mr. James said this request is for a 17,602 square foot retail center and a 3,150 square foot office condo building on approximately 1.83 acres located within 600 feet of a Gateway Corridor. It is located east of Cambridge Way and north of Hadley Road and it is zoned General Commercial. Since more buildings are planned on an entire 14 acre parcel Staff requested a master plan so we could make sure that these buildings are sited properly on the 14 acres. The 14 acres is going to become an integrated center so we wanted to make sure we had good traffic circulation and parking for the whole site and the other buildings and a good pedestrian connection and a cohesive development for the entire 14 acres. This was taken to DRC and it was approved at the DRC with stipulations but before the approval it was tabled twice. There were several issues that we had to work out.
Here is the site. The two buildings are going to be right about in here but the whole site is about 14 acres. Here is Cambridge, Hadley and Hartford Avenue. The Comprehensive Plan does recommend interstate commercial for these types of uses.
Staff Comments: We asked for a master plan and it was approved by DRC with stipulations but at the DRC meeting the petitioner agreed to change the building materials to all brick. The plans have been revised since the DRC meeting and they have addressed all of the stipulations. There are a couple of remaining issues. One issue is the front elevation for the retail center. The secondary brick color for the front elevation of the retail center is at 9%, which is below the 10% minimum. When you have all brick, you are supposed to have two brick colors and the secondary color is supposed to be at a minimum of 10% or you can have two architectural elements like soldier course or quoins on the corner of the buildings.
The proposed office buildings now comply with a 20' front yard setback and we are going to measure the setback from the edge of pavement because these are private streets. They don't have any right-of-way and they will measure the setback from the edge of pavement. There is one land use constraint on the site. There is a power line easement that runs across the north portion of the property. To get these other buildings on the site we reduced the setback to 20 feet from the edge of pavement. We can do that with the use of a development incentive. With the development incentive what it does it doubles the perimeter landscaping so they were able to reorient the buildings and meet this 20' front yard setback for the office condos.
They made some changes to the building elevations after DRC. I e-mailed the elevations to DRC and they have taken a look at them. They would like to take another look at the elevations if this request is approved tonight.
We want to make sure the rooftop mechanical units are fully screened from an elevation view from all sides. They changed the canopy. They did have like a mesh canopy on the buildings but now they are going to do canvas awnings. That is another reason why DRC wanted to take another look at it. A question was raised by one of the DRC members; would these awnings support snow loads? It appeared the awnings didn't have much slope to them. After you look at these elevations we want to make sure you don't have any concerns with the appearance or the architecture.
I wanted to point out the work that has been done to make this plan more compliant. A lot of work has been put into it. Parking was removed from the interior access drives. The buildings are now cohesive and uniform. Front and rear elevations for the retail center have equal treatments. That means we have brick on both sides and brick on the rear side that can be potentially seen from SR267. Parking is now centralized to allow for shared parking. They have more than enough parking spaces. The office building in the initial request was going to be four stories but now it is only two stories. We have been able to get the number of parking spaces that we need for the whole site and I think they even have about 88 more than what they actually need. Loading space has been moved. It is now correctly located behind the retail center. We now have pedestrian access throughout the 14 acre site. All uses will be connected. Perimeter, parking lot and foundation landscaping complies. We have a better traffic flow and circulation for the whole site. Intersections are now aligned properly. At one time intersections were offset and it looked like it wouldn't function well and it could have been a safety hazard. So, now we have those aligned properly. The entrance conflicts have been reduced. We had some offset entrances and they have been better aligned and we have even eliminated some. The front yard setbacks now comply for the office condos. The integrated center sign complies and the ground mechanical units for the office condos have now been screened with landscaping. So, a lot of changes have been made for the better and the whole site is more compliant with the standards.
So, the remaining issues are the secondary brick color for the retail center for the front elevation. It is just off by one percent. Or maybe they can alter the brick so that it is 10% for that front elevation. Or another option is instead of having two brick colors they can have two architectural elements. The office condos have soldier course so we could have soldier course or they could do quoin on the corner. With the rooftop mechanical units need to be fully screened. With the awning supports for snow loads maybe we have to adjust the slope on the awnings some and then we want to take the revised elevations back to DRC.
Here is the master plan for the whole 14 acre site and what we are approving tonight is the retail center here and the office condo here. We have aligned this access drive better. Now we can use the traffic signal at Hadley for better traffic control. This has been aligned better. So, we feel like enough has been done to eliminate some of the concerns that we had previously.
This is the site plan for the two buildings that are being considered tonight; the 17,000 square foot retail center and the 3,100 square foot office condo. These are the trash enclosures. There are to be two of them located behind the retail center and they comply with the standards. They have a cedar gate that is required. This is the pedestrian plan for the whole site. The red is the sidewalks so we now have connections for all of the proposed buildings on the site. These are the elevations for the office condo. This is what has been revised since it was at DRC. The canvas awnings have been added. These aren't a concern because we had the slope that we needed for snow. This is what the DRC saw with the scored block but they since have changed that to all brick and then they had this metal mesh as an architectural element with the canopies instead of awnings. This is the retail center that has been revised since DRC and here you see the flat awning with hardly any slope and that was a concern and the parapet height for the front was also a concern. It was a little over a foot and a half I believe. This is what DRC saw for the retail center with the metal mesh and this flat canopy. I wanted to show you the changes that were made since DRC. This is a 3-D rendering that DRC had asked for. That is support for the awnings; it doesn't show the awnings but hopefully it gives you an idea of what it could look like. All signs would be individual letters. The back that will be facing SR267 will be all brick. That is the footprint for the retail center. This is the landscaping plan. We doubled the landscaping for the perimeters and there is now a cohesive landscaping plan for the whole 14 acre site for the perimeter. You've got all the parking and the landscaping islands that we need and we will get the trees in there. Those will be reviewed as each building comes in. Here is the landscaping plan. This is the two buildings that we are looking at tonight. They comply with foundation and parking lot and perimeter landscaping. Here is the lighting plan and the photometric plan that complies. They are using an usual light fixture for the parking lot lights and for the wall lights but they comply. They don't have a flat lens; they just look different than what you have seen before. It will create its identity for the center. This is the sign proposed. It complies as far as height and the sign surface area. Those are all of the plans that have been submitted for this project and hopefully I have given you a good understanding of what all has went into getting this project to an acceptable form so we could present it to you tonight. There are representatives here tonight that I'm sure would be happy to answer any questions that you might have.
Mr. Sam Patel at 155 Founders Point South, Bloomingdale, IL, 60108 said I'm here on behalf of my company, GPS Development.
Mr. Brian Cross with the Civil Site Group with offices located at 643 Massachusetts Avenue, Indianapolis, IN 46204 said we will be happy to answer any questions about the presentation that Mr. James just made on the plans, elevations and building and landscaping.
Mr. Carlucci said maybe you could tell us about other projects that you have done in Plainfield.
Mr. Patel said I came in this Town back in 1995 and it is after 11 years that I came back again to do more development here. In 1995 I came here to build my second property. I'm in the hotel business. I built the Super 8 here, which is on Gateway and during the construction of that back in 1995 we opened it in 1996 and I purchased the land across the street where the Hampton Inn is right now. I started construction there back in 1998. I had some other projects in Chicago. Meanwhile we have moved on and sold the Super 8 but we invested more funds here and I purchased the Days Inn about two years ago and completely renovated that and now about a year and a half ago I purchased the property behind me because it was sitting there vacant for 8-10 years. They couldn't do anything so we thought we would look at it and we are going to diversify it a little bit. We are going to do a hotel eventually. I don't know which one yet. It is probably going to be something in a full service. We are talking with others such as Marriott and Hilton, etc. Meanwhile we want to try out at the strip mall an office condo because I'm seeing the potential and growth in this Town so that is why we are here tonight to go for the strip mall and office condos. It is our plan that we are going to keep this and the office condos we will eventually lease them out or we will sell them. We don't know what our plans are yet but we will see what kind of response we will get with this. Once we develop that and move some dirt we plan on getting a couple of restaurants. We have put two pads down for restaurants out in the front and then we will go with the hotel.
Ms. Whicker said on the planting plan I see it had a different date but was the entrance to the site moved slightly north? On the plans dated the 19th it looks like the exit onto Hartford Avenue is directly across the intersection.
Mr. Cross asked, the northern most entrance to the retail center?
Ms. Whicker said correct.
Mr. Cross said that is directly across.
Ms. Whicker said because I wasn't sure. The planting plan kind of showed it that it would be an intersection that was offset but it is not. I think this one was dated the 16th and the one that you had up there was the 19th.
Mr. Cross said if you look at the detailed plan of just our retail center and the office condo right here, you will see the northern hatched area, which is right-of-way pavement. You can see the location of the curb cut just right across the street.
Ms. Whicker said I just wanted to make sure because some of them do show that directly across.
Mr. Cross said that is the intent. That was the original design there actually.
Ms. Whicker said on the awning color it said it was going to be the same color as brick number one or was that the framing color?
Mr. Cross asked, for the office condo?
Ms. Whicker said the retail center. The canvas awning with the truss frame the color is to match brick one. Is that the awning color, do you know by chance?
Mr. Cross said I'm not familiar with the differentiation of brick color one and brick two.
Ms. Whicker said brick one was the one that was just showing the nine percent, is that correct? But are the awnings coming in the same color as the brick?
Mr. Patel said it is the same color as the brick.
Mr. McPhail said DRC had concern about snow load on the awnings. From an engineering standpoint has that been resolved?
Mr. Patel said what we will do with that is if it is still an issue, we will make that awning with the slope with the snow load and then with the rooftops I will make sure the parapet that we build on the strip malls that no mechanicals will be shown. If it is one feet, we will take it up to two feet or three feet to make sure we hide the rooftops. As the owner, I don't want to see that either so we will do that.
Mr. McPhail asked, did we resolve the one percent on the brick or are we going to do a waiver?
Mr. James said we talked to the architect and he said it was possible that he could get to the 10%. Have you made a decision?
Mr. Patel said we won't need a waiver.
Mr. McPhail said I know it's not much but we can differentiate between the ordinance. I would like to make a comment because I'm the representative on the DRC and I've been through the process here a couple of times. I would really like to commend both the developer and the DRC for the work that they have done on this project. They really put a lot of work into it. I think it is an excellent concept for the land use and when they started out, it just wasn't meeting traffic flow and being able to sell one unit if they wanted to so they really worked hard and I think it is a good mixed use for that area. I think it will help spur some additional growth there.
Ms. Whicker said thank you for returning to Plainfield.
Mr. Patel said Plainfield has been good to me. Indiana has been good to me. I got my start here in the south of Indianapolis 15 years ago and I'm still doing business in Indiana. I live in Chicago but I do business in Indiana so Indiana is good to me.
Ms. Whicker asked, does the motion reflect that elevations are still to be taken to DRC?
Mr. James said yes.
Ms. Whicker asked, but we do not need to worry about the waiver to allow the secondary brick color?
Mr. James said we probably should amend condition two and change that to “the front elevations to the retail center shall be revised so that the secondary brick color will comply with the 10%.
Ms. Whicker asked, is there anyone in the audience that would care to speak on this matter? Being no one coming we will close the public portion of this hearing and the board will open it up for discussion or a possible motion.
Mr. Gibbs made a motion that the Plan Commission approve DP-06-031 as filed by GPS Development, LLC requesting Architectural & Site Design Review approval of a 17,602 square foot retail center and a 3,150 square office condo building on approximately 1.83 acres within 600' of a Gateway Corridor finding that:
1. The Development Plan complies with all applicable development standards of the district in which the site is located.
2. The Development Plan complies with applicable provisions of the Subdivision Control Ordinance for which a waiver has not been granted.
3. The Development Plan complies with all applicable provisions for Architectural and Site Design Review for which a waiver has not been granted.
4. The proposed development is appropriate to the site and its surroundings.
5. The proposed development is consistent with the intent and purpose of the Plainfield Zoning Ordinance.
And that such approval is subject to the following conditions:
1. Substantial compliance with the site plan, master site plan, master pedestrian plan, lighting plan, light fixtures, trash enclosure details and landscaping plan file dated March 21, 2007.
2. Front elevations shall comply with the building elevations as submitted.
3. A traffic impact study shall be submitted to Staff at the time an Improvement Location Permit is submitted for the first building on the site.
4. Because of changes to the elevations after the DRC meeting the revised elevations shall be resubmitted to the DRC for further review.
5. The retail center elevations will be resubmitted to reflect the revised 10% coverage.
Second by Mr. McPhail. Roll call vote called.
Mr. Satterfield – yes
Mr. Matrana – yes
Mr. McPhail – yes
Mr. Brandgard – yes
Mr. Gibbs – yes
Mr. Kirchoff – yes
Ms. Whicker – yes
7-ayes, 0-opposed, 0-absent. Motion carried.
OLD BUSIENSS/NEW BUSINESS
Wayfinding Sign Master Plan Update
Mr. James said Corrie Meyer with Schmidt and Associates and a representative from RLR Associates are here tonight. We have been working with them the past several months on our wayfinding sign program. We have come up with a master plan that we would like to present to you tonight for review and comment. I'm going to turn it over to Corrie and let Corrie give a brief presentation about the program.
Ms. Corrie Meyer said I'm from Carmel, Indiana at 705 College Way. I'm here on behalf of Schmidt and Associates and Jim is along with me from RLR. We are teammates on this Plainfield wayfinding project. We have been working with a subcommittee for several months now. Through all of that process we have come up with this wayfinding plan that basically outlines a series of family of signs located in several key districts throughout the Town. If you could switch to page C2, it shows basically the family of signs. We have a main directory sign. This is the largest sign of the entire family. The purpose of this sign is to be located along the major arterials within the Town boundaries. The secondary directory sign is number 20. This sign is a little bit smaller and we had originally thought we are going to have the same type of sign and they are going to be smaller and the primary difference is just it is going to be the speed limit. The more and more we started developing this concept we ended up presenting the idea of this sign 20 being a leased sign. For instance, if Mr. Patel wanted to put this in is development to direct people to building one but it is a lease sign that the Town owns. So, Mr. Patel would be paying money to the Town. Another opportunity for this sign to be leased would be in the industrial district, which is where we have a recommendation to put it. Another location would be right downtown. Obviously, it wouldn't be a leased sign. This sign down here would just be smaller due to the lower speed limits. Our third sign in the family, sign 30, is a gateway sign. Here before you you see two different options of what a gateway sign could look like. There are four different locations that we have outlined and I will discuss them here in a few minutes on where we are thinking these signs would be located. Sign 40 is a destination marker and right now we are thinking just one of those, Plainfield Town Center. That is not to say that there may not be a need for something like this in the future maybe for a park that is just a neighborhood park or another type of public facility. Type 50 is a simple street ID sign and then type 60 is a median adoption sign. I know DRC has been talking about the “adopt the median program and this would provide a guideline for the signage that would go within those medians.
Sign sizes all range based on speed limits and uses. You can see this one here is only 42 inches but it is going to be surrounded by shrubs and it is going to be nonchalant. The signs right now are all the type face size, which is what you see in the back of the room. This size is just a little bit smaller than what INDOT recommends for a 55 mph road, however, Jim and Rodney with RLR have recommended this type face is sufficient enough for SR267. Eighteen of the 40 plus or minus signs that we are recommending are located within the INDOT right-of-ways or State right-of-ways, therefore, we are going to have to be going before INDOT to work through all of these variances that we need to get. We have met with INDOT once and they have informed Mr. James and I that Plainfield is the first within the district to get a wayfinding program so that is exciting. We will be working with them to make this within their requirements as well as fit your needs. We certainly don't want an eight inch type face up there that is a big brown sign right next to this that does the same thing. It's contradictory.
The book that you have basically outlines what is a wayfinding strategy. What are some of the interests that the committee developed and these interests range from commercial, conventional, public, industrial and parks. And then what you see here is an example of the type, face, font, potential colors and then any logos that would be used on the actual signs themselves.
Also in your book you have a foldout map that basically outlines all of the signs. There are four key districts; the Town Center District, Convention District, Industrial District and Commercial District. While these boundaries may look rough and tough on paper by far they are not. It is very easy to say this boundary needs to shift this way or that way and the intent here is not to present a zoning map per se but just to highlight where do we want the traffic to be? We want the industrial traffic to be on Stafford Road, Ronald Reagan Parkway and secondary SR267. So, that is how that Industrial District came to shape. Looking at the Industrial District you will see that there is a gateway number one and that would be where the first gateway sign is located off of Ronald Reagan Parkway and I-70. Then moving around the Town with the gateway signs there would be a gateway sign located at SR267 and I-70. Then moving around the west gateway four would be Moon Road and U.S. 40 plus or minus depending on what happens with the bridge. Then just moving north on SR267/Avon Road gateway number five and that is at Township Line Road. And then gateway six is CR100S and Ronald Reagan and then gateway three, the final gateway as we make it around, is just west of Raceway Road and U.S. 40. All of these signs were placed in areas where we thought this is where the core amount of traffic is coming into Town. And then the districts were developed afterwards. Sign number 18 by gateway six is All Points. Yes it is industrial. No the Industrial District does not stretch all the way up there and that is just simply because it is on its own right now. Maybe the Industrial District does stretch up farther but it is the same type of sign that you are going to see throughout the Town. You are not going to see a blue sign for industrial or a green sign for the Town Center. It will all be red or it will all be black. Right now we are recommending red.
Mr. James asked, what are the back of the signs going to be?
Ms. Meyer said red is what we are showing right now.
Mr. James said we thought maybe we could put slogans or community values or Quakers, etc. or welcome back to Plainfield or something like that.
Ms. Meyer said or thank you for visiting or something like that.
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Ms. Meyer said two sided with wayfinding. Probably not and the reason is is because when you are driving and the sizes of these signs being able to see across the way. It is your sight distance.
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. McPhail said you can't put one north because you don't have any road going north.
Mr. James said I got a call from John Hirschman today asking about the progress of wayfinding signs. We were going to put one at CR200/Ronald Reagan.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. McPhail said drop it down to CR200 because that is where the road goes.
Mr. James said (inaudible).
Ms. Meyer said so the recommendation is to bring the gateway six and sign 18 south to CR200S?
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. James said (inaudible).
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. McPhail said it is too far north because there's not going to be any roadway there.
Mr. Kirchoff said you could move it east to Raceway. Or as Mr. Hirschman is talking about something indicating (inaudible).
Mr. Brandgard said gateway six ought to be over on north Raceway and then at some point you put a wayfinding sign saying All Points or something like that. At least until Ronald Reagan is completed so you have everybody traveling from the north down it and then you could put a gateway sign up.
Ms. Whicker asked, do the gateway signs have a brick foundation?
Ms. Meyer said yes. That is “here you are you are in Plainfield. In fact, the gateway signs technically are not wayfinding and that is something that we got into discussion with INDOT because what we will end up doing is submitting several different packages to INDOT. One being a gateway sign package and one being a wayfinding sign package because a gateway all you are saying here is Plainfield.
Mr. McPhail said I think 18 could be a future gateway. You have no place to put it right now and you don't want a gateway sign on Raceway; you want a wayfinding sign. Gateway six may someday when that road gets done, you will want one on that north end but you can't do it until the road gets up there.
Ms. Meyer said you can see how detailed this can get. The book is intended to be a master plan overarching and comprehensive. In the back of the master plan loosely we attached a little bit more of a detailed look, i.e., what is on sign three, which is in the Convention District. Sign three is a type 10. That is the largest type of sign. It is on the corner of SR267 and Hadley. It is on the southeast side and you will be reading it when you are traveling north so it is facing south. You are going to have a convention center, Plainfield High School, the Metropolis, Splash Island and industrial parks. All of these signs have the capacity to have five indication points or destination points on them. We have in most cases maximized all of those points. We set priorities within the committee and the priorities are primarily the ones that you see here on sign three; the convention center, the high school, Metropolis, Splash Island and then secondary priorities were the industrial parks, Town Center, and then the third priorities were the police, Town Court, Plainfield Parks and any of the other schools like the middle school and elementary schools.
By us being able to establish these priorities we were able to look at each sign individually and determine the proximity of where we are and why people are coming into Plainfield that might need to look at these signs. State Road 267 and I-70 is a major corridor for people coming in for Splash Island or for the Metropolis. So, that is why those two are in that sign.
Then the spreadsheet basically breaks down every single one. What we would ask tonight is for a recommendation to go before the Town Council.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Ms. Meyer said there is a cost factor.
Mr. James said (inaudible).
Mr. Brandgard said (inaudible).
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Ms. Meyer said it is funny that you mention Bloomington because we were talking about Bloomington with INDOT and they had been working with INDOT and then the city actually let it fall to the side. When the group got interested again, they just went ahead and did it and now they are having trouble keeping the signs up because it is an INDOT right-of-way. So, we want to make sure that we do this right and coordinate with INDOT properly.
Ms. Whicker said you were talking about number 18 and you had mentioned that you had prioritized signs and when they would go up.
Ms. Meyer said sign 18 is a gateway sign.
Ms. Whicker said but you would change the location.
Ms. Meyer said we would change the location or it becomes a future. None of this has to be built right away.
Mr. James said we can add locations or we can eliminate locations; whatever your preferences are.
Inaudible.
Mr. Satterfield said if I'm coming on SR267, where is the sign to tell me to turn right?
Ms. Meyer said if you are traveling south on SR267, Quaker Boulevard, you will come up on sign number 37, which is another large sign type 10. It will indicate directions to the Plainfield High School, Plainfield Middle School, industrial parks, convention center and the winery.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. Satterfield said turn on U.S. 40 on SR267 when I get to Stafford Road, will there be a sign there? That is 30?
Ms. Meyer said that is 37.
Mr. Satterfield said that says it is facing south. The sign would have to be facing north.
Ms. Meyer said you are right that should say facing north, that is right.
Mr. Kirchoff said we are thinking on the same line. I still think we need one when I'm heading south.
Mr. Brandgard said you need one on each side of the road.
Mr. Satterfield asked, wouldn't you have one on each side of the road?
Ms. Meyer said think about that though because if you have a sign on both sides of the road, you are playing to different destinations. Flip your page back over and go to sign number six. That is the sign that is facing south and you are pointing to the Plainfield Municipal, industrial parks, the Metropolis, Town Center and Splash Island. It will be on the southeast corner. It is not a double faced sign; it is two signs.
Mr. James said it is facing south for northbound traffic. It is in the opposite quadrant of the intersection, northwest. It should be south, 37. It should be facing north. That intersection is so big it would be difficult to have double faced signs.
Ms. Meyer said there is that correction. Please keep in mind that sign number 37 does face north.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Ms. Meyer said you can change the individual space, which makes the type 20 ideal for being able to lease out something. What we actually even talked about is since we are going to be so close to the new high school opening do you really want to spend the money to direct people to the old high school because there is an INDOT sign out there on SR267 pointing people to the existing high school on Stafford Road. So, once we get into construction documents and the actual initial amount of signs that Plainfield is going to commit to build by the summer of 2007 then we need to decide what actually is going to be put on the signs; is it the middle school or the high school?
Mr. Kirchoff said are you telling me that the sign that we see with the arrow it is not such that you could rotate the arrows? Instead of pointing to the west you are going to say that the high school is going to the north so it is one piece?
Gentleman said it may be a matter of taking that sign strip down and having the sign shop reverse the arrow direction and maybe changing the vertical location of the sign.
Mr. McPhail said that one is pretty simple really because at that point the only thing that changes is the direction on U.S. 40. Mr. McGillem, Mr. Mitch Haase, Mr. Belcher and a lot of people have worked hard on this. How many public meetings were there?
Ms. Meyer said we had several public meetings. In fact, Mr. Patel was part of one of them and we met with the committee several times. So, there has been a lot of input on what are the needs of the public, what are the priorities of the community and what are the real locations of where we want to be?
Mr. Kirchoff said after forwarding it onto the Town Council I would ask that you make sure that your spreadsheets indicate the right locations and the right arrows.
Ms. Meyer said we can do that.
Mr. Carlucci asked, if I'm heading south and I take a right because I want to go to the middle school and I get to the Elm, don't we have other smaller signs or not?
Mr. Brandgard said I think we should be consistent. The signs that are up there now the school put up there and they are not very adequate.
Ms. Meyer said as of right now what we have discussed is not putting something secondary up at that location because the middle school is a second priority; it is not the first priority. Where the first priorities were carrying the signs out all the way to the destination whereas, the secondary priorities we said how far are we going to carry these through Town? Whereas, if we get you within a block of it, you should feel pretty comfortable about where you are.
Mr. Brandgard said just one thing for the current thing where the middle school is if you don't know to turn there, you would never find it. That is a busy school.
Ms. Whicker said it won't be.
Mr. Brandgard said but it is right now.
Mr. James said the Public Works can make signs for individual sites for like the middle school with the temporary program that Premier is going to do. We thought we needed one at SR267 and Main Street to point them to the west to Splash Island and Mr. Belcher said we can just do individual signs at certain locations. That is one way we can solve that problem.
Ms. Meyer said it all comes down to money.
Mr. James said I'm trying to develop a fee schedule that we can lease out space. If it is a primary sign, it is a larger sign and it would be more prominent so it is going to cost more to be on that sign, i.e., All Points or the winery. The secondary sign is going to be a smaller sign, therefore, it should be a lower cost to be on that sign. I'm trying to come up with a fee schedule so that we can charge businesses to be on the sign and it would be more of an equitable way of who gets on the sign. Also, it would be a way of funding maintenance of the signs.
Mr. Carlucci said if you have four public locations, the convention center, Plainfield High School, Plainfield Parks and Splash Island, if you have the Metropolis, you would go to them and charge them for that?
Mr. James said yes.
Mr. Brandgard said just as a thought though it concerns me especially with the larger one, you could have somebody who is willing to pay more for that space than say the Metropolis and you are really wanting to direct the people to the Metropolis. I thought when you were first talking about it, we were going to be charging for the smaller signs and not the big ones.
Ms. Meyer said I think with the Metropolis what we had discussed was that the Metropolis isn't an individual retailer; the Metropolis is a Commercial District. It is not a mall so to speak; especially they are changing Plainfield Commons to be the Metropolis now.
Mr. Brandgard asked, is that official?
Ms. Meyer said unofficial.
Mr. Kirchoff said I would like to look at 60.
Ms. Meyer asked, sign type 60?
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. Brandgard said yes it will. In the green space where it says Plainfield Chamber of Commerce it will have whoever has adopted that median to take care of it.
Mr. Kirchoff said in most cases it doesn't have the logo. If CVS does it, it doesn't have the CVS logo?
Mr. McPhail said I don't think it should. I think it will be just like the picture.
Mr. Kirchoff said I just want that confirmation because I think one of the early poles we saw was that it was going to be free advertising.
Mr. McPhail said that is Premier's proposal.
Mr. Kirchoff said I just want to make sure that we signed off on this. This is a consistent program and it will look consistent no matter what and we are not providing free advertising other than they get their name on it for doing it but it is not another logo sign for them.
Mr. Brandgard said I think that is the point of all of this is consistency.
Mr. Satterfield asked, is that a separate plan then for the Metropolis?
Mr. Brandgard said no.
Mr. Kirchoff said they came in but they were going to allow Barnes and Noble to have their logo and in fact we said they were trying to circumvent the Sign Ordinance and have off site signage.
Mr. Carlucci said Chris White with Premier paid for all of the plantings by the Metropolis. What they were trying to do is to sell advertising space to some of the businesses in there to offset that cost but they weren't taking their people out there to maintain it.
Mr. Kirchoff said to me there is a double whammy here. I'm glad to hear that confirmation that this is consistent throughout the Town; all of these are going to look alike and we are not going to have logos.
Ms. Whicker asked, would they buy the sign?
Mr. James said I'm thinking an annual contract to lease it out.
Mr. Brandgard said I think like this here it is what you see everywhere else. If somebody comes in and says that they have adopted that area and I'm going to take care of it, that is the name that you put on it.
Mr. Satterfield asked, are they going to adopt it financially or are they going to adopt it to take care of the area?
Mr. Carlucci said it is like the “adopt the highway program but the Town would take care of them.
Mr. Satterfield asked, how do you enforce that? Do we take their sign down?
Ms. Meyer said it certainly has to be something that is a written contract between the Town and the person who wants to be on the sign. Within the committee level we talked about how do you set the priority? If it is initiated, we could do it out of lottery. You draw people randomly and then after a year when that lease is up, if there are other people in the lottery still interested, then they can put their name on the sign. If there is nobody interested and they want to lease again, they can lease it again. Basically, it comes down to first come first serve. You are on for a year. If there are other people in line, you have to get off but that is certainly something you definitely will have to develop in order to make that type 20 sign a consistent thing throughout the Town.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. Satterfield asked, have these programs been successful?
Mr. Carlucci said the Rotary cleans it up anyway and we don't have to set signs out at all.
Mr. McPhail said he's talking about other towns.
Mr. Satterfield said other towns where they have adopted these because you see them everywhere.
Mr. Carlucci said 86th Street has them and they have their signs and every time I have gone by those they have been well maintained.
Ms. Meyer said “Keep Indianapolis Beautiful drives that “adopt the median program. In fact, the “adopt the median program in Indianapolis is very successful. If you are seriously considering doing the median maintenance, I would suggest talking to Phil Shafer with “Keep Indianapolis Beautiful because he is the one that runs that program.
Mr. McPhail said there has to be some kind of criteria that it has to be maintained at this level or you are out of here.
Mr. Brandgard said the other part is who pays for the signs that are up there? I doubt if the organization pays for them but I don't know.
Ms. Meyer said that is a good question for them.
Mr. James said (inaudible).
Mr. Brandgard asked, they have a fee?
Mr. James said Lafayette has a program where they charge for median signs. I don't know if that is for the cost of the sign or the cost of the maintenance and landscaping. I have e-mailed them but haven't received a response. I want to check into that.
Mr. Satterfield asked, will they pay us to do the work?
Mr. James said no. We think a private landscaper can take care of it.
Ms. Meyer said our firm was interested in doing a median that got swiped away from us. Basically, we were looking at doing the initial planting and then maintaining it year after year and then it would say our company logo on the sign. But I'm not familiar on whether we would have to have paid for the sign for our name on the sign. I think that might have been a courtesy of the entity that we were looking at.
Mr. McPhail said if we are getting properly maintained, I don't mind buying the signs.
Ms. Meyer said especially if you have them bulk already and all you have to do is put the name on it.
Ms. Whicker said but if it would change and change every year, what does that require? Is there a way to edit it or do you have a whole new sign?
Ms. Meyer said we are talking about two different signs now because the year after year sign would be the type 20 sign where you can take off the actual piece and then put a new piece in. But that would be established by the DRC or whoever is going to be the governing agency on establishing the guidelines for the “adopt the median program. This is simply a guide for that governing agency to use this sign within their program.
Mr. Brandgard said I think really where we are tonight is we need to forward it onto the Town Council and behind that we probably need to come up with an ordinance to control it I would think. Is there consent? Consent given.
Mr. Kirchoff said just take a look at the spreadsheet and make sure of it.
Ms. Meyer said we will do that. We will definitely make the changes regarding the north side. Thank you.
Mr. Brandgard said thank you and good work.
Proposed Amendment to Zoning Ordinance
Mr. James said our next item is the proposed amendment to the Zoning Ordinance for the creation of the Golf District. This was brought forth due to the Oak Tree PUD and the annexation of the Elks Club and the Oak Tree Golf Course. I have given you two versions. I gave you the Elks version, which was done by John Moore, their attorney and then I gave you Staff's version. Today I received another e-mail from John and he gave me a more recent version so I'm going to pass that out to you. I wanted to show you these two versions and let you compare them. I'm going to point out some differences. The Staff's version we added a Special Exception as uses. We added accessory uses and temporary uses. The sign standards are a little bit different. What they have proposed are standards that would allow the existing signs to comply, whereas, the Staff's version basically resembles the Parks District standards. I have also added some development standards for landscaping, lighting and building material standards for both the primary building and the accessory buildings. Those are the major differences between the two versions. I wanted to present these to you tonight and get some feedback and comments from you and hopefully have a final draft ready for you next month in May because the annexation is approaching. We want to have this district ready to accommodate them.
Mr. Brandgard said a comment regarding the Staff's version verses the Elks' version we have to have a description that will work there or somewhere else. The Elks would work for what they have out there but if we happen to get another golf course, are we going to have to create another one of these? I don't think so.
Mr. James said that is what I wanted to try to do with the Staff's version. It could accommodate other potential golf courses.
Mr. Brandgard said as far as the signage goes out there their signage may not fit what we have but it is there until they change it like anywhere else I would think.
Mr. James said it would be legal nonconforming.
Mr. Kirchoff said if someone handed me this and said it was different from the first (inaudible).
Mr. James said last Thursday I think Jill had passed out a more recent Staff version than what you received in your packet and I have some more copies of it.
Mr. Brandgard asked, how do I know which one is right?
Mr. James said I should have changed that too but this is the more recent version.
Mr. McPhail said the two issues that looks like are different are on page 1, gaming events. In my early conversations with the board I said I'm concerned that it is limited to private clubs and lodges because I don't know that a public facility can conduct gaming events. You have a public golf course so that is how that I got in there. And then on temporary parking and recreational vehicles I said what is temporary? I don't want them parking them out there for two or three weeks at a time or a month. He came up with 120 hours because they have members come in and want to leave them over the weekend or something like that but I wanted that temporary defined. So, that is why those two things are in there. They are not in ours and I think they need to be in here.
Mr. James said I will get with John and given them the most recent Staff version and ask him to implement that into his version.
Ms. Whicker said so he made those changes based on suggestions from the Town.
Mr. James said from Mr. McPhail yes.
Mr. Brandgard said I would incorporate from John's what we think is appropriate into ours. I wouldn't tell him to incorporate ours into his.
Mr. Daniel asked, what about the sewage treatment?
Mr. Brandgard said if it is annexed, they don't want to be forced to hook up to the Town utilities.
Mr. McPhail said if they are meeting the regulations, I don't have a problem.
Mr. Kirchoff said I agree and that again would be compatible with anybody.
Mr. James said the water issue came about because of the irrigation of the golf course. That would be very expensive and they have some retention ponds that they use for that.
Mr. McPhail said that doesn't bother me. If the well is bad and the Board of Health says you can't use it, they will have to hook up to the water and the same way with the sewage system, which right now as far as I know they are in trouble. I know they had a meeting with the Board of Health but I don't know how that came out.
Mr. Daniel said John contacted me and said they needed to get that resolved right away so they can put in a treatment plant.
Mr. Carlucci said this will have to go to a public hearing, is that correct?
Mr. James said that is correct.
Ms. Whicker asked, is there consent to move forward for a public hearing? Consent given.
Proposed Amendments to the Zoning Map
Mr. James said the next issue is we have about 100 parcels, actually I think it is about 99, that are currently legal nonconforming that we need to rezone to the Religious Use District, School District and the Park District. Jill did some research and she came up with these parcels that we need to rezone for these new zoning districts so that they conform and comply for like if a church wants to expand, they would do a church master plan and be compatible with the zoning district. That is one of the jobs that we need to get taken care of pretty soon.
Mr. Carlucci asked, did we notice everybody?
Mr. James said I want to get with Mr. Daniel on how to do this. Can we do it as one public notice by a Plan Commission sponsored amendment to the zoning map? If we have to notice every parcel within 600 feet of these parcels, that could get pretty expensive but I'm going to do some research and look into it.
Mr. Carlucci said we are not changing the use.
Mr. James said no; we are just changing the zoning to make them conform.
Ms. Whicker asked, are we changing it because of new districts?
Mr. James said yes.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. McPhail said the biggest problem for the churches is they are all now residential and a special exception use and they have to go through a public hearing every time they want to do something. We made the new zoning so if they develop a master plan, they can conform to that master plan without going through all of those hoops. I think it is real important that we get that done.
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. Daniel said (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. Daniel said we will take a look at it and see how we can minimize that.
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Mr. James said I looked at it as a new business since they were advertising a new program, contemporary program and a new business can have a banner up for 45 days in the General Commercial District. Even though they are in a Residential District that is the way that I approached it.
Mr. Brandgard asked, are you talking about the banners they put up on poles?
Mr. Kirchoff said it is exactly what we have downtown.
Mr. McPhail said we have an ordinance that allows you to do that in parking lots in the General Commercial. The way that Bill and I read it it was the GC District. But churches I think should be able to put banners on their parking lots. There are more schools because they are decorative banners. These are the banners like flag banners. They are not the string across banners.
Mr. Kirchoff said if we get these others taken care of, we ought to look at these and it shouldn't just be churches but schools, etc.
Mr. Brandgard said you have to make sure they are defined.
Mr. Kirchoff said it is right in here. I was just saying we could get this cleaned up and piggyback that change as well.
Mr. Satterfield asked, (inaudible).
Mr. James said if we amend the ordinance, we would have a public hearing.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible). Right now they are all putting out banners for Vacation Bible School. I have always looked at this as kind of a federal freedom of religion act. How far do you want to go type of thing? I saw the banners that you are talking about and the only thing I looked at when I went by was was there writing on the other side? I didn't see any writing.
Mr. Kirchoff said she has bought these series of banners that she is going to use (inaudible). They were hesitant to put them up because the brackets were expensive. Will we spend that money to get the brackets up and the Town is going to come back and say you are in violation? (Inaudible).
Mr. McPhail said (inaudible).
Mr. Carlucci said I think we went through this already with what was going on with where the high school baseball field is in Hummel Park and the signage that they had there or the signage that they were coming up with at Lovell Field I think we have already addressed that issue.
Mr. McPhail said that is advertising.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. Satterfield said (inaudible).
Mr. James said the ordinance does allow approval of a sign plan with the master plan for the religious use districts so if a church wanted to, they could come in with a sign plan with banners, light poles or whatever and the Plan Commission can approve them.
Mr. Kirchoff said (inaudible).
Monthly Activity Report
Mr. James said that leaves us with our monthly activity report. We invited three entities to the Plan Commission tonight. Cash Advance is one. They have been putting out portable signs. We have all stopped in and talked to them and they say their headquarters out of Miami makes them do it. I guess if they are going to keep doing it, we are just going to have to go to the next step, which is issuing a citation. They are the small portable signs that they stick in the ground. They stick them up all over Town. It is the Cash Advance in Plainfield Plaza. It's over next to Kroger's next to Ace Hardware. Then we invited residents at 429 Duffey. I don't know if they showed up last Thursday or not. We will give them another call to see if we can't work something out. And then the homebuilders, Westport Homes, Hansen & Horn and Davis Homes they have been putting up the portable subdivision signs in Plainfield for subdivisions that are not in Plainfield. We are trying to keep tabs on these.
Ms. Sprague said (inaudible).
Mr. James said and then 435 Harlan was at the last Plan Commission meeting and we gave them 30 days to show some progress. Emily has reported that they haven't shown much progress so I'm going to give them one more chance and we are going to try to contact them and have a face to face meeting with them and let them know we are serious about that.
Mr. Carlucci said (inaudible).
Mr. James said I wanted to bring you up-to-date on what has been going on with some violations and things we are trying to watch around Town. That concludes what I have for you tonight.
Mr. Brandgard said I haven't come home on U.S. 40 for awhile but when I was coming home tonight, I noticed in the old Galyan's parking lot there is a nursery setting up business there.
Mr. James said the guy that is doing it is from Terre Haute and he came in and talked to me. It is allowed as a temporary seasonal use.
Mr. Brandgard said I noticed he had a sign up what looked like a temporary structure sitting out there.
Mr. James said I even had them do an ILP so we have everything on file.
