PLAINFIELD TOWN COUNCIL
August 23, 2010
Mr. Brandgard: August 23, 2010 is now in session. I would like to ask everyone to rise for the pledge of allegiance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Mr. Brandgard: We have several items on the consent agenda this evening.
1. Approval of the minutes of the regularly scheduled Town Council meeting of August 9, 2010.
2. Second Reading of Ordinance No. 11-2010: Prescribing the Length of Term for members of the Plainfield Town Council.
3. Approval of Town Engineer's, Parks and Recreation Director's, and Transportation Director's report dated August 20, 2010. IT Director's Report dated August 21, 2010 and HR Director's report dated August 23, 2010.
4. Approval July 2010 monthly report for Department of Planning and Zoning.
5. Approval to enter into an agreement with Banning Engineering for inspection services for Splash Island North Parking Lot project in an amount not exceed $24,800 per the Parks and Recreation Director's report dated August 20, 2010.
6. Approval to advertise for bids to pave first alley south of US-40 between Carr Road and Wabash per Transportation Director's report dated August 20, 2010.
7. Approval to transfer sewer and water capacity for No. One Wok Chinese Restaurant from their location at 2010 Stafford Road to their proposed new location at 1820 East Main Street per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
8. Approval to release Hook-SupeRx, Inc. (Store 5067) Performance Bond No.: 6130471 in the amount of $12,300.00 for Sidewalk and Drive Entrance associated with the CVS at Saratoga, per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
9. Approval to release Hook-SupeRx, Inc. (Store 5067) Performance Bond No.: 6130473 in the amount of $5,000.00 for Driveway Access associated with the CVS at Saratoga, per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
10. Approval to release Hook-SupeRX, Inc. (Store 5067) Performance Bond No.: 6130472 in the amount of $69,800.00 for Right-of-Way work in Saratoga Parkway, Median and Lane Changes associated with the CVS at Saratoga, per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
11. Approval to release Precedent Residential Development, LLC Performance Bond No.: 400SG2188 in the amount of $28,101.00for Sidewalks in Meadowlark Lakes Section One, per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
12. Approval to reduce Precedent Residential Development, LLC Performance Bond No.: 400SG2193 from $21,044.40 to $1,399.20 for Sidewalks in Meadowlark Villas Section One, per the Town Engineer's report dated August 20, 2010.
Mr. Brandgard: Is there any additions or changes to the consent agenda?
Mr. McPhail: Mr. President on the HR Director's report, I would ask that the recommendation for the hiring and billing part to be given a conditional approval until the set time and ask the staff to review the process and I would like to at least ask to delay that for a few days until we've had the chance to look at that.
Mr. Brandgard: Ok.
Mr. Gaddie: Item six I have a question, it says the first alley south of US-40 between Carr Road and Wabash does that alley run that far?
Mr. Belcher: Not sure that is continuous the whole way but it is essentially talking about that first block. I think that we had talked about it in a work session a while back.
Mr. Gaddie: I just noticed that.
Mr. Belcher: It's not all the way, for example where the Van Buren School is at, there is a part there that it won't continue up the hill, it will just be an area that homes are right there on the back of the alley.
Mr. Kirchoff: I move we approve the consent agenda as amended.
Mr. McPhail: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda as amended. If there is no further discussion roll call vote please.
Ms. Whicker- yes
Mr. Gaddie- yes
Mr. Kirchoff- yes
Mr. McPhail- yes
Mr. Brandgard- yes
Plainfield Town Council consent agenda for August 23, 2010 as amended.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you.
BID OPENING: Clarks Creek Trail Extension and South Center Street Trail Widening
Mr. Brandgard: We do have a bid opening this evening for the Clarks Creek Trail Extension and South Center Street Trail Widening do we have proof of publication?
Mr. Daniel: Yes we do.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you.
Mr. Brandgard: First bid is submitted by Calumet Civil Contractors Whitestown, Indiana.
Mr. Daniel: Calumet Civil Contractor's bids are in proper form.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you. The bid submitted by Calumet Contractor's are as follows: Contract “A” is $232,800.00 again that is $232,800.00. Contract “B” is $103,205.00 again that is $103,205.00. Somebody from Calumet, did you submit an alternate bid for “A”? Alternate bid one? Don do you know where to find the alternate bid one in the document? Contract “A” for alternate bid number one is $88,500.00 again that is $88,500.00. Second bid is submitted by EMB Paving Incorporated, Indianapolis.
Mr. Daniel: EMB Paving bid is in proper form.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you. The bid submitted by EMB Paving for base bid for contract “A”, is $157,740.00 the alternate bid number one is $116,100.00, again, contract “A” base bid is $157,740.00, alternate bid number one is $116,100.00 and there doesn't appear to be a bid for contract “B”. Third bid is submitted by JDH Contractors, Plainfield.
Mr. Daniel: JDH Contractors bid is in proper form.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you. The bid submitted by JDH Contracting for contract “A” based bid is $166,695.50 again that is $166,695.50. Alternate bid number one for contract “A” is $99,299.00 again that is $99,299.00. There does not appear to be a contract “B” supplied. Forth bid is submitted by John Hall Construction, Plainfield. The total amount of the bid submitted by John Hall Construction, contract “A” base bid $134,608.50 again that is $134,608.50. Alternate bid number one $78,688.90 again that is $78,688.90. And there was no contract “B” bid specified and that was the last bid submitted. I would like to thank everybody that submitted a bid. Engineer's estimate for contract “A” based bid was $200,000.00 again that is $200,000.00. Contract alternate bid number one is $140,000.00 again that is $140,000.00. Contract B, engineer estimate was $150,000.00 again that is $150,000.00. I would like to ask the bid review committee made up of Clay Chafin, Renae Whicker, Tim Belcher, and Dave Lahey to review the bids and come back to the next meeting with a recommendation. I would also ask that you pay particular attention to the bids and make sure that there is not a contract “B” in there somewhere. Again I find it strange that they are not separated in “A” and “B” as they came in again to make sure that it is not included in numbers we have already received. Thank you.
BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR
Mr. Brandgard: We will go to business from the floor. If none, we will go to the Town Manager's report.
TOWN MANAGER'S REPORT
Mr. Carlucci: I have no report tonight Mr. President.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you.
Mr. Brandgard: Staff reports we will start with Chief Mitny? Joe, is there anything from Planning and Zoning?
Mr. James: Good evening. In my report I explained the proposal to pay for the Diner relocation study and I just wanted to see if you had any comments about that and if you wanted me to move forward with this study.
Mr. Kirchoff: Fully funded right?
Mr. Brandgard: Yes, let's move ahead with it. You have consent. Thank you. Chief Anderson, anything from the Fire Territory?
Mr. Anderson: Mr. President, I have one item tonight. My report did not get sent in to the right place that was my fault last week. I did get it sent out late this afternoon so I don't know if anybody got to see this. So I will go ahead and explain one item on there that I wanted to get approval for. I will go through that and you give me your direction on this. Back in July, there were two change orders, the fire station contract change order #11 and change order #12. Last week the construction meeting architect presented revised change orders 11 and 12. There was an error on the change order 11; the amount on change order 11 that was entered on the original change order was $3,063.67. The correct amount should have been $3,370.00. That difference is $306.33. So they have presented us with revised change orders for eleven and twelve. The revised change order eleven has the correct amount of $3,370.00. The revised change order twelve reflects the change in the contract that change order twelve would start out with as a result of change order eleven. The amount of change order twelve the actual change order amount does not change. It is just the balance of the contract carried over from change order eleven. So it is correcting the error on change order eleven correcting the balance on the contract amount on change order twelve. Do you have any questions?
Mr. McPhail: I move we approve the revised change orders eleven and twelve for the Fire Station construction.
Ms. Whicker: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: The motion is second to approve the revised change orders number eleven and twelve for the Fire Station 123. If there is no further discussion all those in favor signify by aye, opposed, motion carried. Thank you.
Mr. Anderson: Thank you. That is all I have.
Mr. Brandgard: Jason, is there anything from Public Works?
Mr. J. Castetter: I just have a couple of items tonight. One of which and now I believe all of the police cars are changed over and the Fire Department has some equipment to get rid of as well as DPW. I would like Councils consent to have a Town of Plainfield auction and advertise for the auction and we are shooting for September 25th which is a Saturday. I will have a better idea of the time and where that would take place once I talk to the auctioneer but that is the date we are shooting for. Also I wanted to let you know we have had some heavy rains early this year and we've cleaned some bridges out and I think Tim may have mentioned about the I-70 bridge where the state bridge goes over White Lick Creek and had some debris. I am pleased to announce today that the State was down there cleaning the that all off so that bridge is cleaned of the debris and so I think we are in pretty good shape for the next rain event.
Mr. Brandgard: Very good.
Mr. Kirchoff: You think it will rain again?
Mr. J. Castetter: I hope so. Also I'd like to mention to you that the vac truck storage building is near completion. I hope this week it will be done. I will try to put something together to have a little open house for you folks to come down and look at that. I don't have a date set for that so it might be an email to you because we want to start occupying that building as quick as possible. That is all I have.
Mr. Brandgard: Talk about your display up there.
Mr. J. Castetter: Oh, I hope everybody had a chance to see the new equipment out there. It is a new hydraulic valve turner, it is a yellow piece of equipment something that has been in need for some time. The unit as I spoke to you before it will keep our employees back strong in operating those valves and hopefully not breaking those. Something that we get into with those valve turners when they are done manually is you tend to torque down on them too much and especially with a couple of guys and a cheater bar sometimes on the end of it to try to shut the valves down. So the hydraulic valve turner is something you can put on the valve, its easy to operate and you can operate that valve up and down up and down several times in a minute compared to what it would take manually. The other piece of equipment was 800 kilowatt generator and we will use that for lift station outages as well as other outages that we have within the Town. Its been a piece of equipment that we've had to rent on several occasions but I think since I've asked Town Council to make this purchase I don't know that we had a lightening storm yet. We do have it when in need of any situation that may arise. Thank you for those two pieces of equipment they were much needed.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you. Ron, do you have anything from Human Resources? Clay, do you have anything from Parks and Recreation? Tim, do you have anything from engineering? Don, do you have anything from Transportation?
Mr. McGillem: I always got a little bit. But probably the main thing in addition to the report is to remind you that we are going to be up with the main new sanitary sewer line to Carr Road. Thursday of this week we met with Duke Energy and we are sending out notices but Carr Road will need to be closed down Thursday and Friday but with expectation of having it open on Friday. We've worked with Duke Energy for alternate routes of getting their people in and out and of course the main thing is the trucking in and out for Duke and the Post Office and other industrial sites down there. We will be blocking Dan Jones Road, Township Line Road as the alternate route while Carr Road is shut down and the alternate to that will be Avon Avenue then back in Township Line Road. We got to move a sanitary line from the north side on Carr Road to the corner of Duke's structure there and that structure provides for hopefully next year Duke has an intention of going ahead and separating the remaining portion of their combined sewer and that allows them a structure to hook into for the sanitary sewer getting everything separated down through there.
Ms. Whicker: Glad that the Dan Jones project is completed up in the Avon area and that it didn't happen at the same time.
Mr. McGillem: That was kind of coordinated to hopefully avoid that being done at the same time. We also have contacted the John Ayers County Engineer because you are aware they have intent on replacing a culvert across Township Line Road between Carr Road and 267 that has some problems so we have advised them to hopefully avoid those going on at the same time.
Ms. Whicker: Any collaboration or coordination I think with the other governmental agencies, I know I saw an email from the Avon Town Council and worked with the County I think all the citizens probably appreciate that.
Mr. McGillem: We've been trying to get the word out as much as possible especially on the main road where got them closed down. The Carr Road situation again it is a situation where we could possibly have worked to keep it open but we would probably be looking at twice the time to get it done and as we met with a representative from Duke they agreed to get it done and get it back open. We got reporters here hopefully we will be able to get an announcement out on this closure and again like I said we were hand delivering to everybody on Carr Road and down the industrial post office and so forth so they will be aware of it.
Mr. Brandgard: Do you have a message board up?
Mr. McGillem: We will have a message board up starting tomorrow Jason will be putting it up. We are putting a message board up in front of Duke west bound for west bound traffic which we feel is probably predominant and then we are putting a second board up on Carr Road so that will pick up the people coming down there.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you. Did I miss everybody in the staff?
Mr. Brandgard: If not we will go to old business, Kent? Renae?
Ms. Whicker: I just wanted to mention with the puppy pool coming up, I know I see online you have our new guide for the programs we have for the recreation department and the new guide has later dates and it doesn't have the puppy hours. I know I've been receiving a lot of questions and people asking me what the date will be and what time? If possible on our current events I know we are having the competition at the skate park and maybe we can put the puppy pool hours or information online would be great if we do that because there is a lot of people talking and I know we just had our first couple of years and everybody wants to come and that would be great to have on the website I think. I think you guys will probably see double or triple your attendance this year because the word is out. That is all I have.
Mr. Brandgard: Bill?
Mr. Kirchoff: The only other business I have is do we have an effective date on the no parking on the one side for Brookside?
Mr. Carlucci: We can put those signs up there. We've got the signs I think all we've got to do is do some locates and they will go up.
Mr. Kirchoff: Somebody commented that it hadn't been done and I said we had passed that some time ago. So we are good to go?
Mr. Carlucci: I have gotten some back but that is my problem, I've got a few of them back that I was kind surprised so I am still going to make some kind of personal contacts to make sure they know about that before we put them in.
Mr. Kirchoff: Thank you that is all I have.
Mr. Brandgard: Ed?
Mr. Gaddie: Are we going to have a talk on the Plainfield Elks?
Mr. Brandgard: Once we make sure everybody else doesn't have any other old business today before that comes up. Do you have anything else?
Mr. Gaddie: No.
Mr. Brandgard: Last meeting we held off decision making till this meeting to give us a chance to review the documentation that was presented to us by the Elks and to bring the Elks dis-annexation back to the table.
Mr. McPhail: Mr. President I've had time to review the documents and I'd like to make a couple of statements that I think is pertinent with this complex issue and again it is not something I think it needs to be taken lightly. First of all we have two members of this Council that are members of the Plainfield Elks Club and probably Councilman Gaddie's probably a lot more active than I am but we are both participating members. But the fact remains that we represent all of the citizens of the Town of Plainfield and all issues. I think that the important at least for me to establish some history that I think is pertinent to the end result of whatever we do. I'd like to go back to 2003 when the first time I was approached as a Town Council member from representatives of the Plainfield Elks Club requesting that the Town considering purchasing the golf course because of financial distress they were in at that time. I did bring that to the attention of the Council and we did enter into conversations I'd like to consider the negotiation at that particular time (inaudible) The Elks had the golf course appraised; the Town had it appraised as a golf course (inaudible). At that point and time it was an issue (inaudible) re-evaluate it as a golf course. In the mean time a short period of time in there the best my memory serves me a couple of changes in the leadership of the Elks Club and the Elks signed another contract a new agreement which basically stopped those negotiations. That was in 2004 when the proposal was made. I would like to make a comment at that point and time as an Elk not as a Council member, when that financial crisis came about (inaudible) took leadership and got a hold of things and I think has done a great job for the Elks and I think the prices did subside during that time. I was approached again sometime in late 2005-2006 again in a financial conditions at the Elks Club and would the Town be interested in re-addressing that issue? I informed those that contacted me at that time that there was an issue that we couldn't resolve in the past and that was a difference between the two appraisals and also that there was a contract with the operator that would interfere with moving forward and those negotiations really didn't go very far and I don't believe at that point and time we ever brought anything before the Council. Those issues did exist and also during that time period the Elks was having great difficulty with their septic system on more than two occasions the Town was gracious enough to offer to allow them to hook up to the Town sewer system with no strings attached and went to the County and with written communication on a couple of times and allow that the Elks golf course, the Elks to continue operation but the Board of Health was threatening to shut them down. Those discussions for some reason and I really don't know why the Elks decided sometime during the negotiations that Bay Development that they didn't want to do that but they ended up putting in a very expensive mound system to take care of the sewer. The Town was very cooperative in trying to help them with no strings attached to solve that problem. Prior to the current situation that they are in there has been a history of financial conditions that I think the Town has addressed and I think negotiating in good faith during those times. I would like to make some comments about the Bay Development project. I don't think we have addressed in previous meetings. Obviously the Town has not defaulted on any of the commitments that they have made during the memorandum understanding the signing agreed to between the Town and the Elks I believe has the results of rezoning a section of the Elks to continue the functions with no interference from a private club and the things they were doing there was nothing in that memorandum that interfered with their ability to continue to operate. No requirements in that memorandum on fact specifically said no requirements to the Elks (inaudible) water or sewer system in the Town of Plainfield or the utilities. There was protection for the golf course along Martin Road and that memorandum states what services the Town would provide for the taxes they would pay. So I think that memorandum was an understanding and very clear, and everybody understood what those agreements were and they were rolled in one area I don't think we have addressed and previous discussions is the Martin Road situation. We have to understand that we annexed not just the Elks property; we annexed an additional 240 acres. With that additional 240 acres we had given zoning approval and development approval for a subdivision. Part of the requirements for that subdivision to be in service was improvements to be made to Martin Road or to US-40. Those improvements gave the Elks protection no sidewalks but it did allow for a right of way and that type of thing. Seems to me that if we consider the annexation and do not address that problem or that issue that it would have a negative effect on future development on that additional 240 acres. I think that road issue has to be I don't want to be put in a position where if that property came into a development in the future the 240 acres, I don't want to be in the position of going through all of those issues again and improving that roadway all along Martin Road. I think we have an agreement and I think that has to be considered. Also I spent some time looking at the information provided to us by the Elks Club and their whole preference has been that the additional taxes has kept them from meeting their charitable donations and the things that none the less that is their main focus that is what they told us they always give. That their main focus and function of the Elks Club and if we take a look at the budget that was submitted to us the total expense budget is $313,557.00. The total amount of their charitable contributions in that budget was $9,025.00 about 3.2 percent of their budget. Now their budget shows a negative of about $13,000.00 and if they didn't have the increased taxes to pay they are around $12,000.00 they would probably have a balanced budget but they wouldn't increase their contributions they would still only be 3.2 percent. I have a lot of difficulty when I look at those numbers and as an Elk or anybody else analyzing those and a lot of difficulty seeing the focus of being a charitable benevolent organization. When I look at the rest of the expenses it appears to me and I'm not an accountant but it certainly appears to me that all the income from the golf course is being used to subsidize the other functions of the club. The operation of the club house, food and beverage, and probably reduced fees on the golf course. And it seems to me that that is where based on the financial information that seems to me or I think the focus of the Elks Club. I don't know if that has anything to do with what we are deliberating but I just feel that I have to make that known that it appears to be and I think anybody that analyzes that budget would come up with the same conclusion that the functions are being subsidized. My dues there are $67.00 a year. They provide for me in a club if I want to participate and have a private dining club and a room to go to and get reduced cost of the golf course and those types of things. I am just having difficulty seeing the focus as they present. I have to tell you that I do believe that the Town has kept all of their commitments we have invested a lot of money in this whole process and the Town has not defaulted on any of the agreements they have made and I don't think that there would be any question that there would be storm water fees and there will be increased taxes. The Elks had claimed that they think the storm water fee is unfair because there storm water doesn't run into the Town of Plainfield, well I beg to differ with that. The Elks Club is currently in the Town of Plainfield and regardless of where that water runs we are responsible for quality storm water run off anyplace within the Town of Plainfield. So currently it is in the Town of Plainfield. I also wanted to understand what effect these type of things had on maybe other golf courses and another benevolent organizations in a Town in the County. According to the records I was able to gain through the Hendricks County website, 2010 taxes for the Elks Club is $32,869.00. Deer Creek Golf Course in Liberty Township is $23,415.00. there is a difference in their assessed valuation. I was a little bit surprised when I studied this, nothing is exempt on the buildings or any of the property other than the Elks everything the total assessment $1,869,000.00. Deer Creek's assessment was $1,701,000.00. At first I had a little bit of difficulty understanding that when I went back and looked and the Deer Creek Golf Course is about 25 acres smaller than the Elks Club. I have to believe that is the major difference in the assessed valuation. One golf course in Pittsboro pays $33,830.00. Prestwick which assessment is much higher pays over $63,000.00. West Chase pays over $71,000.00. Twin Bridges almost $52,000.00 that is real estate taxes no personal property taxes. I also took a look at the Eagles Lodge which I think is close to the type of organization that the Elks is. The Eagles Lodge is assessed at $1,110,000.00 and their property taxes are $27,474.00. I also took a look at the storm water fees the Elks Club is paying $428.00 a month in storm water fees that is based upon the roofs, black top and that type of thing. The Eagles Lodge pays $120.00 and I took a look at that and the churches in town they are benevolent organizations Plainfield Christian Church pays the highest $508.00 a month. Islamic Center, we haven't singled out the Elks Club in storm water issue and treated them any differently than any other property owner in town and philosophically I oppose the dis annexing and I think it is bad public policy. I don't see any precedence to do that. Now their may be extenuating circumstances here that would cause us to want to look at that and maybe address that. I'm not saying that I wouldn't at least listen to that if I felt comfortable and we resolved all of these other issues and impact all of these other property owners that were included in this annexation. I know they've said they don't want or need our Police and they don't need our fire protection. Well based upon the current system that we have within the County we are going to be the first responders any time there is an emergency at that location. We are the closest and our Fire Departments the closest and we are going to do that whether they are in town or out of town. I just have a real difficult time evaluating this and not doing something that reverses what we've done more than one property. I think that would have to be addressed very thoroughly before we consider responding to the request. Thank you for your time.
Mr. Kirchoff: Did I understand you correctly, what was the understanding with Martin Road? Who's going to (inaudible)?
Mr. McPhail: The cost of the upgrade is not the issue that bothers me it's the dedication of the right of way, the agreements that we had that we would put no sidewalks on that side road and we wouldn't allow any public access from there. If we eliminate all those negotiations and that road has to be improved then we've got to go back (inaudible). I don't think it is fair to the Town to have to go through that process again.
Mr. Kirchoff: Thank you.
Mr. Gaddie: I have some comments on when you were talking about donations and what they contribute. There is so much it is not showed what's actual. We do junior golf, we used to do fireworks and we got a big thing here before got too much traffic on the road. The swimming pool is part of the community back then, you know. We do a lot of service for people that need something, we deliver meals to people not as much as we used to because our membership is down. A needy family at Christmas time and any other time people call on us which they do on all organizations. The Town sewer, I know we had that and Banning went out there and brought it up the road across the property. The dues covers the lodge dues it covers State and Grand Lodge, any of that money not used for other than donations and you talk about reduced golf fees and that doesn't have other than our contract with the rental company that is where that comes in there was no money coming out of the dues and the rental money is only used 95% for the mortgage. There is a lot of things here that was done in the past. It's getting tough all organizations are struggling and I would like to see the Elks stay in existence even if I am a member, I have been there since I got out of the service and I never used this golf course, it wasn't open at first. It was the swimming pool for families and we tried at one time to get it a donation to get a swimming pool I think from Swinford Park there was donations but it never followed up so the Elks furnished the pool and you had to be a member, well I think it was 25.00 it went to 250 or something but to get the swimming pool and stay out in this area for families. There is so many things you don't see on here, the cost and I know the Elks are fine, I've been involved in the past, I'm not now but they work with everybody trying to get something solved there. They would like to stay in existence and I know several people, there are several members here but the community has several members and I think you know my opinion. Anything that you think we could do, I'd like to see it there. This Dis Annex would be (inaudible). Kent is right on the cost. Sometimes we got to spend money to make things work in the community. The rental and that, Indianapolis rents all of their golf courses out. That way they get cash rent that covers their expense and they don't have to worry about who is working or what is working or maintenance and everything. I would like to make a motion that we de annex the Plainfield Elks Lodge 2186 and put part of the Oak Tree Golf Course from the Town of Plainfield.
Mr. McPhail: Mr. President I think I would like to move that we table this request and request the Town staff and attorney to look into these issues that we have concern and to see if we can meet with the Elks Club and come up with an agreement that would allow them to be annexed and not put us in a situation that we don't want to be in.
Mr. Kirchoff: I have a lot more questions before we do.
Mr. McPhail: I will withdraw my motion.
Mr. Kirchoff: John, if you could help me with…I've read everything you gave me and you can say it was a pretty quick read. I have notes but I don't have any set patterns, just bare with me as I go through this. If I recall the Council did take some action earlier this year recommending the de-annexation and there were two issues that you responded back to us. The Elks actually approached the Town at some point in that past history that they wanted to be protected as a golf course as well. So I think that is the most of sort of issues for us. Because I think we are going to get to the points obviously and hammer this out. But wasn't that one of the issues the wording and how to guarantee it stay a golf course?
Mr. Moore: Yes. First of all thank you for consideration again this evening. I know this has been a long process. To answer your question there were a number of issues in that proposal and in meeting…
Mr. Kirchoff: There are two in your response.
Mr. Moore: Correct and I said in my response that we have a number of issues but specifically and primarily one, we didn't think it was appropriate to take a commitment that remains on the golf course forever, in that we don't know what the future holds, we don't think it is a good practice to bind property forever. The Elks did say they were willing to consider a commitment during the time they owned the property that they can make that commitment. But in the future they do not know what it is going to be like in fifty years. The second issue that was in my letter was the Town requested that the Elks pay however the amount of the attorneys fees that Town had incurred from when this process began till when this process ends and the Elks just doesn't have that, I'm sure your esteemed council is reasonable on his rate there but we weren't going to come out of pocket tens of thousands of dollars.
Mr. Kirchoff: I guess my question on this; help me understand why the tax payers and the County should fit the bill for the bad business at the Elks?
Mr. Moore: I think if we look at the evidence that was submitted it shows that the idea for the Elks to be brought into the Town was proposed by the Town. Bruce Sklare in his affidavit says that the Towns urging that the Elks were encouraged to be annexed in, so it wasn't their sole act to be brought into the Town. The Town of Plainfield was the beginning of that and there were deals struck and there was going to be a development and we talked a little bit about Martin Road and I know that is an issue and none of that came to provision and so really everyone made a bad deal.
Mr. Kirchoff: I don't think we made a bad deal. We held up our part of the deal.
Mr. Moore: I didn't say you didn't hold up your part, I'm saying that what the Town approved did not occur and is not going to occur.
Mr. Kirchoff: I have been in personal conversation with a couple different (inaudible) and a couple of things that they represented to me a couple of things that they contradicted in the testimony so I wonder if you could help me if you have your exhibit “E”?
Mr. Moore: Yes.
Mr. Kirchoff: I am on the first page of exhibit “E” and number three of paragraph seven of the original agreement.
Mr. Moore: Yes sir.
Mr. Kirchoff: It is their sworn testimony in that last paragraph that as of the set date of this second amendment, the developer has paid the Lodge the sum of $70,000.00 said payments were non refundable.
Mr. Moore: That is correct.
Mr. Kirchoff: That is not what they are representing in here. So the Elks have received $70,000.00 from (inaudible).
Mr. Moore: Approximately. If that is in there that is correct.
Mr. Kirchoff: Then at the last meeting you told me that there had been a settlement between Mr. Sklare and the Elks something less than $50,000.00.
Mr. Moore: That is correct.
Mr. Kirchoff: So the Elks has made up $120,000.00 off of this deal and expecting the tax payers to pick up.
Mr. Moore: A couple of things, of what I first want to address any misrepresentation because I don't understand that there have been any so I want to clarify that.
Mr. Kirchoff: In my face I was told that you had not got one dime from Mr. Sklare.
Mr. Moore: That is not true.
Mr. Kirchoff: Just want to make sure of that for the record that you had received something greater than $100,000.00.
Mr. Moore: I don't know if it is that high.
Mr. Kirchoff: Greater than $75,000.00.
Mr. Moore: Yes sir.
Mr. Kirchoff: I'm sure that our legal fees are not $75,000.00.
Mr. Moore: No, mine are not either, but they were somewhere in there less than that and there were some other expenses involved in this, specifically though, the Elks (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff: We have a copy of a letter that was dated February 12, 2009 (inaudible) what prompted us in sending that letter to the Elks?
Mr. Moore: There was a meeting held at the Chamber of Commerce office and attendance at that meeting was myself, Mr. McPhail, Mr. Carlucci, and I am not sure if Mr. Daniel was there I can't recall. You may help me out I am not sure.
Mr. Daniel: I am not sure, but you and I have had meetings.
Mr. Moore: That was the day you gave me the letter.
Mr. Daniel: I don't know where all this fits in…
Mr. Moore: This was the time when Mr. Carlucci was off to vacation. He was anxious to head east I know.
Mr. Daniel: The meeting at the Chamber, I think was there and I'm trying to think of who else was there.
Mr. Moore: So to answer your question. The Town indicated that it wanted to be or would try to be creative in a way that would resolve this issue. There were a number of items discussed. Condemnation was not discussed.
Mr. Kirchoff: I remember we were asked…
Mr. Moore: I didn't ask that, that was proposed to me. We had a meeting about…
Mr. Kirchoff: What did we even ask to even do?
Mr. Moore: I didn't know that until I met in Mr. Daniel's office and then slid that across the table.
Mr. Brandgard: I was in that meeting. I believe the discussion, we were asked to submit a proposal.
Mr. Moore: I don't agree with that. But anything along the lines of our condemnation, I would have known that we couldn't do that because that was asking us to break our lease with Ron West.
Mr. Kirchoff: When did that get resigned?
Mr. Moore: I believe that was resigned within the twenty-four months. Exactly when, I am not sure. I believe and it might have been '09, we heard that '04 was the last one, and I think we were going in five year increments and maybe it was unknown.
Mr. McPhail: May I respond to that? My recollection of that meeting was that and believe me when people just throw things all over, one of the Elks representatives suggested the Town of Plainfield purchase the golf course, pay off their debt, and let them contain and operate the golf course for the next ten years. I made the comment how do I sell that for the tax payers? How can I go to the tax payers and say well we just gave the Elks $600,000.00. That is my recollection and have we got to that point being an option to be considered rather than be…
Mr. Kirchoff: John, this may not be for you, may be more for Mel, what is the status of our action to the club, didn't we (inaudible).
Mr. Daniel: When they responded to our offer that withdraws the (inaudible). We made an offer and then they rejected the offer, we basically (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff: Ok, I wasn't sure how that worked because we had said we will do it under these conditions. (Inaudible)
Mr. McPhail: I would comment that they did tell us in that meeting they had just recently signed a new agreement with the operator and asked us how they could get out of that contract.
Mr. Moore: That is not what I recall but fair enough.
Mr. Kirchoff: I've got some questions as we…go ahead.
Mr. Moore: If you want me to respond to that, I don't think there was any as Mr. McPhail in his opening talked about, there had been at that point six years of conversations of the Town and the Elks talking about and a transaction to sell and purchase. From my knowledge, I was not involved with discussions. I think as Mr. McPhail indicated they could never agree on a price. You got one appraisal you got another appraisal, there is no agreement so if the Elks is staring at an expiring management lease that they need to renew so that they can continue to renew so that they can continue to have income on that golf course that is my guess as to why that was entered into and it just so happened that it was at the same time when they were trying to work out this dis-annexation.
Mr. Kirchoff: I got some questions perhaps for financial people. It seems to me that one of the issues and I don't understand the taxing. If we can work something out the questions I have is: How did you determine that (inaudible) this is forward looking and it will be effective some date in the future all taxes and fees that were billed and could be billed because again if it were effective September 1st there would still be taxes paid sometime in the future, is that not true? How much longer how many more years past of the dis-annexation date before (inaudible).
Mr. Bennett: Bill I can't answer that, I don't have a clue of the sanitation.
Mr. Kirchoff: Doesn't it take a few years before someone gets (inaudible)
Mr. Bennett: You can take up to eighteen months.
Mr. Moore: I don't want to cut you off but I can respond to that. It is similar and I've talked to the County that it would be similar to when we sell a house or a piece of property and we pro-rate the taxes. The Town of Plainfield, the time that the Elks was in the corporate limits is approving the taxes that are going to come due. Today's taxes are going to be due next year on August 23rd. So my understanding is that that is when they will be due, next year, because this year's taxes will be for next year.
Mr. Kirchoff: (inaudible) some way if the agreement says that that will be done.
Mr. Moore: Yeah, I'm not sure there is a way to get around that unless the assessor changes it in March but that assessment is in for next year payable 2012.
Mr. Kirchoff: Then the same for the storm water fees, you wouldn't expect them to be paid (inaudible) specified days they do get paid every month. I don't understand those are just some of the issues, reading what is here, thinking of what we have done to (inaudible). That is all I have.
Mr. Moore: I will tell you it is my understanding that the Elks are current on all taxes and fees to the Town.
Mr. Bennett: With the exception of a small amount of a late fee.
Mr. Kirchoff: I think that is all of the questions that I have.
Ms. Whicker: We do want our conversation to continue. I do think that it is a misfortunate situation for the economical downturn and the economy that the development did not come through for the Town for the development and for the Elks. I do think that there are members that (inaudible) until that agreement is made with the details explained so that we understand the commitments that we are making with the money our tax payers pay us is just very crucial and to make sure that we know exactly what it is will ease and open event type of situations (inaudible) but whether it be the legal fees. I don't think to make a motion tonight, we don't have those specified. Is that something that we (inaudible) Town Council meeting or is that something that we…
Mr. Daniel: You can do it anyway you want too. Before it is ever approved public (inaudible) it is a matter of public information. So the Elks and the Town have some kind of (inaudible)
Ms. Whicker: You did provide us with a lot of information to digest. And I think that it's only natural that by digesting that information and any of the publics concerns that come forward just to make sure that the motion that we do make is doable and agreeable is the best interest (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff: To Kent's comment, how do you get the right people to take a look at it and To identify the issues and (inaudible)?
Mr. McPhail: Based on my history and involvement in it all (inaudible). I certainly think we need a staff to look into all of this process and all of those issues that are there and (inaudible). We have to find out what effect we are going to have on whatever (inaudible).
Mr. Moore: I have a few brief comments. I certainly appreciate wanting to get together and resolve this matter and that has been a goal for a very long time, over twelve months. Meetings, meetings go back and forth we talk about issues we try to resolve this. We were here January 28th I believe of this year and we ended up with the same result we said well lets go back and look at this and try to work out an agreement and so forth. I'm not opposed to that except for that is eight months of taxes these folks behind me have to pay. That is eight months of fees that is going through a March assessment and that is costly to them and it effects them and it is really the driving force and the reason why we ultimately just have to request that this dis-annexation is pursuant to the statute. Because these folks need to move forward, they need to find out what the determination is going to be made so that they can stay on course. Like I said I am certainly not opposed to discussing issues and answering questions. I mean we certainly need to get the questions answered and I want everyone to feel comfortable that they understand the effect of this and the impact they will have. I would just respectfully request that if we do that that it happen in a very shortly time frame. There was a proposal, I don't disagree with that. That is sort of the same proposal that I am talking about that we are going back and forth with and I guess what I would say is if we come back in two weeks and there is not any sort of agreement that use congressional parlins and we just take it up as (inaudible) vote and the result is the result.
Mr. Brandgard: This has been my feeling, you say we have talked about this for quite a while, the Council had a discussion and we worked on a dis-annexation agreement that we forwarded to you. We did not get a complete answer back. This is what bothers me, the whole time, every time that we have met and we met a year ago, we discussed this, the Town is trying to come up with a solution and I think the Elks had made up their mind that they don't want to be a part of the Town because of what solution (inaudible). You talk about eight months or so, Bill mentioned that we sent that memorandum to you and we never really got a proper response and you were asked to sit down and discuss to see what we could work out. This is the problem that I have (inaudible) it keeps coming back to the Town required the annexation. Yes we did to protect the people who want to move into that development were going to be told that they would have memberships to the Elks and we to make sure the Elks was still going to be there, the two entities' still keep that agreement. So don't say the Town forced the annexation, we didn't. All we told the developer was that if you are going to offer the Elks as an amenity to your development you want it to be in the Town and as you put it down in writing as a force from our side, without that we wouldn't care less. So don't go around saying that the Town forced this. We required it, we didn't force it.
Mr. Moore: And I hope that I have been consistent in the use of word required. I don't believe I've uttered the word force. I don't think anyone was forced into anything, but it was certainly a requirement.
Mr. Brandgard: What I am going for is we need to sit down and discuss the items that serve the Town and have some concerns that he has as well as some from the Elks and I want to sit down and talk about this.
Mr. Moore: In addressing the comment about the Elks reaching a point where it doesn't appear they could be a part of the Town. That is not saying that they didn't enter negotiations in good faith. There were a number of options discussed unfortunately none of those can relieve the Elks of the tax obligation that it effects. So it is not a decision of the Elks that “well we are not going to be a part of the Town”. It is a decision that we can't afford those taxes and fees and there is no relief there, and without that relief there, we got to be dis-annexed. I don't think anyone, a lot of bright people here, a lot of bright people sit in those meetings came up with a solution to solve that problem and with that the only reasonable solution then was the dis-annexation.
Mr. McPhail: I'd just like to make a quick response for that comment as an Elk and a member of the organization. I'm really disappointed that those representing the organization negotiated a ten year contract with the operating of the golf course but it did not allow them to recoup any increase in cost as time went on. I was told that there was no relief in that contract if cost went up for them. I don't think that has been representation from the Elks.
Mr. Moore: I respect your opinion, I will tell you in the past two years if you look at the number of golf courses that have closed in this City, in this State. You are pretty limited in what you can negotiate with a golf course operator right now and instead it turns to weeds. So that is the situation they are in.
Mr. McPhail: I understand.
Mr. Gaddie: While you are talking about the cost and on the contract that, I don't the fact details for the new contract but a lot of that was through the contractor had to do some upgrading to the golf course, water and they have had some problems and the Elks put part up and they put the rest up and the cost they eliminated the cost.
Mr. McPhail: All I was told was they had to sign a ten year contract for no ability to recoup any increase in cost. I don't know if that is true but that is what I was told. And it really doesn't make any difference and I probably shouldn't have made that comment. I don't know if that is true, but that is what I was told.
Mr. Moore: One other item I want to touch on because I know we have discussed it here is this Martin Road issue. And Martin Road for those sort of oriented as the road that is on the east side of the Elks Club that runs down a fairway there and heads north to where this development was proposed. On Martin Road, I think it is important to point out that there were going to be improvements made with my understanding by Bay Development but those improvements didn't require the Elks properly. And as the right of way there, the Elks weren't given any additional property, but the reason for no sidewalks or fencing is simply safety. It just doesn't make sense to have people walking down a fairway at three o'clock on a Friday afternoon when you have someone like me with a bad hook teeing off. So the sidewalk and the fence if the Town doesn't want that, the Town doesn't want that. It just seemed to make safety sense that we required that and also there is a liability there and so that was put in there. But it certainly wasn't I don't think a critical point in the discussions.
Mr. McPhail: My recollection is that it required an additional right of way (inaudible). And I stated that it was protection for the golf course and was also allowed that they (inaudible).
Mr. Moore: I don't think that is correct, I think what happened was the right a way was coming from those folks to the east, they didn't want a sidewalk and when they didn't want a sidewalk they thought well shoot that means my only other option is to put it on our side and we don't want anybody to take a Titleist right between the eyes so we better put down in the agreement that we won't have that on our side either.
Mr. Brandgard: I'm going to ask our staff, Joe, Kim, and Don, do you think we can work through this in the next couple of weeks or a week?
Mr. Daniel: I will say one thing John, the standpoint of timing we've been talking about this for some time now, that you and I clear up what (inaudible) trial date is set or a lawsuit is filed, that is what everybody keeps talking and you just never get to the bottom line. Was the annexation filed?
Mr. Moore: And I will say we will be willing to meet anytime in the next two weeks. I will make myself available.
Mr. Daniel: Before we get into timing, I haven't had a vacation all summer. So I have a vacation scheduled for next week, in one week and of course Labor Day is Monday. So other than that I would be happy to meet anytime.
Mr. Kirchoff: Surely we can spend the week just getting ready. Work on some of the issues so that we don't come in, I don't want to come in cold turkey and say ok, what we are going to do here. Let's have each side start working it.
Mr. Brandgard: We have three weeks until the next Council meeting.
Mr. Kirchoff: We aught to agree on what the issues are so each party can be working on the viewpoint of the issue. I got the golf course, the Town's legal fees, the fees from the Town, and how we make that work, Martin Road and protection (inaudible). Those are the five things that I got out of our conversation. John you may have some others that you have but those are the ones that came to mind.
Mr. Moore: I think that graphs everything that we talked about.
Ms. Whicker: Are those your bullet points?
Mr. Moore: I have Martin Road. I do have a point that I didn't bring up that we talked about, we sort of mixed apples and oranges when we talked about revenue and percent of money that goes towards charitable activity. I think that number was represented about three percent, I will say if we mix apples to apples of the net income, one hundred percent goes to charity. So it costs money to run a golf course. It costs money to service their mortgage and their interest. They have an expense on the septic system and I can tell you this, no one is getting rich out there working at the Elks Club. But we can talk about that at the meeting.
Mr. Kirchoff: I don't agree with that but there is no since in arguing that point. I think the issue is we need to roll up our sleeves and try to work this out and if not then we agree that we can't work it out and we just let it (inaudible).
Mr. Gaddie: I think that dis-annexing is not the big issue, the cost of the Elks with the annex. That wasn't the big factor or our biggest issue. Well I'm speaking for myself but you know going out of the Town is not their first priority; it is the part that cost them to be in the Town and it is the tax money that comes out of there that comes into the Town. Say we do have fire protection and police protection whoever is in there you call but we don't have storm service we don't have any water and you know which a lot of people in the Town that don't have sewer and water so that is a factor. So I think the cost in the annex is our biggest issue.
Mr. Brandgard: I'm going to challenge us to come back to our next meeting with some kind of agreement.
Mr. Gaddie: I will be out of town from August 31st through September 16th.
Mr. Brandgard: You will miss the next meeting?
Mr. Gaddie: Yes.
Mr. Brandgard: For this I would like to have all of the Council members here. You are going to be here on the 20th?
Mr. McPhail: Last meeting the 27th of September?
Mr. Bennett: Yes.
Ms. Whicker: (inaudible)
Mr. Gaddie: (inaudible) the 27th.
Mr. Kirchoff: Do we want to set a date. What are we considering, a work session?
Mr. Brandgard: What I am looking at is (inaudible).
Mr. McPhail: (inaudible)
Mr. Moore: I can be ready when Mr. Daniel returns from his vacation.
Mr. Moore: Can we look at the 13th or the 14th of that week? I'm sorry I can't do the 15th, 16th, or 17th. I apologize; I will be in depositions in South Carolina.
Mr. Moore: 3:30 on the 20th is that what we said?
Mr. Bennett: Mr. President if I could I would like the record to reflect that due to the lack of volume on the recording the parties have been discussing and scheduling and that the agreement is to come together with the representative from the office on September 20th at 3:30.
Mr. Brandgard: Thank you.
Mr. McPhail: I move that we table this dis-annexation for consideration set for the meeting for September 27th.
Ms. Whicker: Due to the fact that (inaudible).
Mr. Kirchoff: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: I have a motion and a second to table the Elks dis-annexation discussion for the 27th of September when all the Council members will be present. If there is no further discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye, opposed, motion carried. Thank you.
Mr. Brandgard: The Town Council meeting is back in session. We will go to new business. Kent?
Mr. McPhail: Don't think I have any new business.
Ms. Whicker: No.
Mr. Bennett: Mr. President, in my report there was a request of the Council to temporarily suspend the sanitary sewer contract that we have with one of our residents in the Wisher Heights area and unless the Council wants me to go into details and the background on that I just request that we would allow this resident due to financial hardship to temporarily suspend their contractual obligation which is about $105.00 a month of their utility payment for the next six months and that therefore extend their contract out at the same six months.
Mr. Kirchoff: In essence you are just asking for six months?
Mr. Bennett: That is correct.
Mr. Kirchoff: I would move that we accept the recommendation of the Clerk Treasurer to suspend the contract on a property on Hannah Street for six months.
Ms. Whicker: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: We have a motion and a second to suspend the contractual payments for sewer for a resident on Hannah Street for six months which will be a six month delay added to the end of the contractual agreement as recommended by the Clerk Treasurer. All of those in favor signify by aye, opposed, motion carried. Thank you.
Mr. Bennett: Thank you Council that is all I had.
Mr. Brandgard: We have three resolutions this evening. First is Resolution No. 2010-15: Authorizing Agent for settlement of Lawsuit.
Mr. Kirchoff: I move that we approve the Resolution 2010-15.
Ms. Whicker: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: We have a motion is second to approve Resolution 2010-15 of authorizing agent for settlement of lawsuit. If there is no further discussion a roll call votes please.
Ms. Whicker- yes
Mr. Gaddie- yes
Mr. Kirchoff- yes
Mr. McPhail- yes
Mr. Brandgard- yes
Plainfield Town Council resolution 2010-15 is adopted.
Mr. Brandgard: We have Resolution No. 2010-16: Supplemental Bond Proceeds.
Mr. McPhail: So move.
Ms. Whicker: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: The motion is second for Resolution No. 16 supplemental bond proceeds. If there is no further discussion a roll call votes please.
Ms. Whicker- yes
Mr. Gaddie- yes
Mr. Kirchoff- yes
Mr. McPhail- yes
Mr. Brandgard- yes
Plainfield Town Council resolution no. 2010-16 is adopted.
Mr. Brandgard: Resolution No. 2010-17 First Supplemental Bond Indenture
Mr. McPhail: I move we approve.
Mr. Kirchoff: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: The motion is second to approve Resolution No. 2010-17 the First Supplemental Bond Indenture. If there is no further discussion have a roll call vote.
Mr. Bennett: Mr. President was that you Mr. Kirchoff that made the second thank you?
Ms. Whicker- yes
Mr. Gaddie- yes
Mr. Kirchoff- yes
Mr. McPhail- yes
Mr. Brandgard- yes
Plainfield Town Council Resolution 2010-17 is adopted.
Mr. Brandgard: If there is nothing else to come before the Council this evening. We won't meet again before the Labor Day holiday; I wish everyone a happy, safe holiday weekend. If there is nothing else, I entertain a motion to sign the documents requiring signature and adjourn.
Mr. McPhail: So move.
Ms. Whicker: Second.
Mr. Brandgard: All those in favor signify by saying aye, opposed, motion carried. Thank you.